I can understand that, too... but honestly, I really wonder if the discussion would come up as much as it does if the *show* questioned Dean's vocabulary, if there were people who flat-out told him that he was speaking like an ass, and to explain himself for doing so. Instead, the show just lets him talk like that, and never questions it, and Dean's not allowed to *grow* as a character. Add that to the fact that he *didn't* talk like that in earlier seasons and you've got a real, *growing* problem.
Dean said some things that made me wince in earlier seasons, but Sam (who went to Stanford) always glared at him when he said them. I think we were meant to understand that there was a long-running disagreement there. I also think it's wearying to continually fight over stuff like that with someone you have to live with and if I had to live with my brother (who is a misogynist, racist and everything else-ist, unlike Dean) I would probably get tired of verbally or physically slapping him every time he said something stupid, and let's not even go there with what it would be like to have to do that if we had to cover each other's backs in mortal danger every day of every week. :/
So the criticism is going to have to come from people who realistically would see it as a problem and the problem is, Dean doesn't say most of these things to people who would. I would have a problem with it if he showed his ass in a big way to someone I would expect to slap him down for it and that didn't happen. But I have a hard time thinking of situations where that hasn't happened and sometimes he DOES get called on being an asshat.
A lot of the criticisms about Dean being misogynist in S3, though, have to do with things that he has said to Ruby. And Ruby is a demon. I understand that in SGA, even though Ronon and Teyla are nonhuman aliens, their colour matters to the humans they interact with and the way those people treat them may be evidence of racism, but I don't think Ruby's gender matters to Dean, because Dean sees demons as different from people and is never unaware that whatever body they may be using isn't really theirs.
I don't think things that Dean says to Ruby count as misogynist, because even though we think of her as a woman because she's played by one, Dean does not think of demons as human. Dean treats Ruby the way he's treated other demons--he's still trying to kill her occasionally--and does not treat other women the way he treats her. Only in the last two episodes has Dean been aware that Ruby used to be human.
So while I wish Dean wouldn't say 'skank' unless he's going to use it on both sexes, I do think it matters that he doesn't say it about women who are not Ruby.
A lot of the rage also came up with reference to the "Malleus Maleficarum" episode and I frankly don't get that because in a universe where demons, hell, devils, pacts with the devil, selling your soul, evil pagan gods that demand blood sacrifice, &c are all real, of course witchcraft is bad--the women in that ep were not practising Wicca! (Oddly, hoodoo has been presented as a GOOD thing, and pentagrams are not always bad--it's not totally Christian-centric...) That was also the episode where it was revealed that Ruby used to be human about five hundred years ago and where Dean found out that HE was going to become a demon, and I think they're doing a good job with the mental reorganisation that is following on to that.
I also wonder how much of the poor writing in S3 has to do with the writer's strike and how many of these eps got less editing than they would have done otherwise, but...we'll see next year I guess.
(this is getting teal deerish; I apologise for that)
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part 2
Date: 2008-02-27 06:39 pm (UTC)Dean said some things that made me wince in earlier seasons, but Sam (who went to Stanford) always glared at him when he said them. I think we were meant to understand that there was a long-running disagreement there. I also think it's wearying to continually fight over stuff like that with someone you have to live with and if I had to live with my brother (who is a misogynist, racist and everything else-ist, unlike Dean) I would probably get tired of verbally or physically slapping him every time he said something stupid, and let's not even go there with what it would be like to have to do that if we had to cover each other's backs in mortal danger every day of every week. :/
So the criticism is going to have to come from people who realistically would see it as a problem and the problem is, Dean doesn't say most of these things to people who would. I would have a problem with it if he showed his ass in a big way to someone I would expect to slap him down for it and that didn't happen. But I have a hard time thinking of situations where that hasn't happened and sometimes he DOES get called on being an asshat.
A lot of the criticisms about Dean being misogynist in S3, though, have to do with things that he has said to Ruby. And Ruby is a demon. I understand that in SGA, even though Ronon and Teyla are nonhuman aliens, their colour matters to the humans they interact with and the way those people treat them may be evidence of racism, but I don't think Ruby's gender matters to Dean, because Dean sees demons as different from people and is never unaware that whatever body they may be using isn't really theirs.
I don't think things that Dean says to Ruby count as misogynist, because even though we think of her as a woman because she's played by one, Dean does not think of demons as human. Dean treats Ruby the way he's treated other demons--he's still trying to kill her occasionally--and does not treat other women the way he treats her. Only in the last two episodes has Dean been aware that Ruby used to be human.
So while I wish Dean wouldn't say 'skank' unless he's going to use it on both sexes, I do think it matters that he doesn't say it about women who are not Ruby.
A lot of the rage also came up with reference to the "Malleus Maleficarum" episode and I frankly don't get that because in a universe where demons, hell, devils, pacts with the devil, selling your soul, evil pagan gods that demand blood sacrifice, &c are all real, of course witchcraft is bad--the women in that ep were not practising Wicca! (Oddly, hoodoo has been presented as a GOOD thing, and pentagrams are not always bad--it's not totally Christian-centric...) That was also the episode where it was revealed that Ruby used to be human about five hundred years ago and where Dean found out that HE was going to become a demon, and I think they're doing a good job with the mental reorganisation that is following on to that.
I also wonder how much of the poor writing in S3 has to do with the writer's strike and how many of these eps got less editing than they would have done otherwise, but...we'll see next year I guess.
(this is getting teal deerish; I apologise for that)