*dies of the stupid*

[alixtii]

Oh yes, (systemic) sexism and racism don't exist outside the United States at all, do they? Feminism is simply just a part of some American agenda of cultural imperialism, and everyone knows that Western Europe is a utopia when it comes to gender and race issues. (Apparently everything I've read in the New York Times--not to mention The Guardian--is a big fat lie. Who knew?)

Really, how does one respond to that?

Comments

[alixtii.livejournal.com]

Americans, especially on LJ, seem either to genuinely have things far worse, or to be happier to discuss them (probably a bit of both) hence by comparison Europe and the UK often do feel like a utopia.

Definitely a bit of both, I think. If you only talked to Americans who were Evangelical Christians, you'd probably have a picture of America is a den of vice and sin. Talking to academic feminists--even if academic feminists is the "right" perspective--gives you a different experience of America because you are used to haveing a fuller set of perspectives on your culture (again, regardless of which are right or wrong or stupid).

There are plenty of Americans who feel that the best way to treat injustice issues is to ignore them, but they rarely self-identify as feminists and they're not the dominant voice in this corner of fandom.

The problem is when non-American feminists hear American feminists speaking and assume that because they don't see what the feminists are talking about operating in their culture, then those dynamics must not exist outside of American culture. Which misses the point that these dynamics are often difficult to recognize (at least at first) in any culture.

In the discussion mentioned, British feminists did eventually take over, which ultimately revealed the person in question to be a nutjob who thinks that women being raped is the fault of feminisms, because no one would have dared to rape her grandmother. (Or something like that; it becomes painful to read at some point, you know?) But the problem is that as long as she's going "Oh, you strange Americans" she seems sane, and other readers might think she has a reasonable argument.

[http://users.livejournal.com/peasant_/]

Ah, it sounds as if you have met a member of that fascinating sub-culture of Britain which we term 'a wanker'. It sounds as if your initial conclusion that you can't talk to her was right.

The problem is when non-American feminists hear American feminists speaking and assume that because they don't see what the feminists are talking about operating in their culture, then those dynamics must not exist outside of American culture. Which misses the point that these dynamics are often difficult to recognize (at least at first) in any culture.

I guess from your point of view, the tricky problem is to distinguish between people who are being blind to the dynamics and people who observe the dynamics but interpret their cause and hence subsequent action in a different way. Mind you, by definition most liberal feminists aren't in a discussion with radical feminists at all, so the problem probably doesn't arise as often as it should. And as you say, the radical types are certainly most vocal in this corner of LJ land.