Um, hi, saw your post browsing my friendsfriends page. I don't have a copy of her comment. However, that site actually has a page on what their philosophy is, if that's what you're looking for. Sure you want to click? (http://spinningspinsters.wordpress.com/5/) And I do wish I didn't really know about it.
Some of its the same, but I know she had some other stuff too--for example, she definitely explicitly referenced Mary Daly in the comments, as well as some other particular second-wave feminists. I don't disagree with her premises so much as her conclusions, and the backlash against radical feminism I've seen on my flist frustrates me almost as much as Dissenter's misguided essay itself.
It's not that I disagree with the premises so much as the conclusions. It's not an awful explication of what patriarchy is or how it functions, but note that it gives no indication of what can be done about it, and is overquick to blame both men and women for cooperating with it. That's the central limitation of radical feminism, IMO.
Yes. I actually asked a radical feminist today what his or her goal and method for change was, I am very interested to see what if any reply I get. I suspect it will be something to do with self-examination, but I may be proved wrong.
As for Dissenter's summary of her own philosophy the only part of it I agree with is this:
That the earth is a living being to whom we owe our existence. That we cannot live without her. That all life is sacred; including the life of so called ‘lesser’ species.
Although I would not anthropomorphise or feminise the earth and I would need to be certain of what she in fact means by 'sacred' before I agreed with the last sentence.
As far as I can see her philosophy is basically 'everything I like and approve of I will call feminine, everything I dislike or disapprove of I will call masculine'. That is just giving new words to things, it doesn't tell us anything useful about how the world works or the differences between genders.
It may serve as a reasonable summary of her philosophy, but that is all it does. Nobody can come to that and understand from it how her mind works or why she believes the things she does. That is probably why she is so angry and frustrated - if she always expresses herself in that fashion she will very rarely find anyone who she can feel a meeting of minds with. The only people she seems willing to talk to are those who agree with her, but since she is incapable of explaining her own point of view they will be limited to the very few people who happen to have had sufficiently similar life experiences that they already hold the same opinions. It must be very lonely being Dissenter.
As far as I can see her philosophy is basically 'everything I like and approve of I will call feminine, everything I dislike or disapprove of I will call masculine'. That is just giving new words to things, it doesn't tell us anything useful about how the world works or the differences between genders.
Interestingly, I see this done in fandom by fans that would not call themselves radical feminists
but note that it gives no indication of what can be done about it
Something I've been meaning to ask you for some time is if you would consider posting a summary of your own thinking on 'what can be done about it'. (Naturally with the understanding that it should be read as a work in progress of your own thinking, not some finalised road map - I don't want to make you feel backed into a corner.)
Some of its the same, but I know she had some other stuff too--for example, she definitely explicitly referenced Mary Daly in the comments, as well as some other particular second-wave feminists.
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(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-26 04:45 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-26 06:15 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-26 11:14 am (UTC)But thanks for the link!
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-26 06:16 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-26 07:00 am (UTC)Oh dear Lord that is hysterical. How has she managed to convince herself of all that?
It's a funny old world, but some corners of it are funnier than others.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-26 11:11 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-26 11:39 am (UTC)As for Dissenter's summary of her own philosophy the only part of it I agree with is this:
Although I would not anthropomorphise or feminise the earth and I would need to be certain of what she in fact means by 'sacred' before I agreed with the last sentence.
As far as I can see her philosophy is basically 'everything I like and approve of I will call feminine, everything I dislike or disapprove of I will call masculine'. That is just giving new words to things, it doesn't tell us anything useful about how the world works or the differences between genders.
It may serve as a reasonable summary of her philosophy, but that is all it does. Nobody can come to that and understand from it how her mind works or why she believes the things she does. That is probably why she is so angry and frustrated - if she always expresses herself in that fashion she will very rarely find anyone who she can feel a meeting of minds with. The only people she seems willing to talk to are those who agree with her, but since she is incapable of explaining her own point of view they will be limited to the very few people who happen to have had sufficiently similar life experiences that they already hold the same opinions. It must be very lonely being Dissenter.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-26 12:56 pm (UTC)Interestingly, I see this done in fandom by fans that would not call themselves radical feminists
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-26 02:24 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-26 11:48 am (UTC)Something I've been meaning to ask you for some time is if you would consider posting a summary of your own thinking on 'what can be done about it'. (Naturally with the understanding that it should be read as a work in progress of your own thinking, not some finalised road map - I don't want to make you feel backed into a corner.)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-26 11:13 am (UTC)But thanks for the link!
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-26 02:01 pm (UTC)