Meme

[alixtii]

I haven't been writing all that much lately (although expect new fic soon), but have been trying to keep involved in other ways: commentaries, audiofics, some meta discussion, and, yes, memes. So, here are 22 shows I've liked (I couldn't come up with 25) and I am challenging you to guess my favorite character from each. Some are harder than others, hee.

1. Buffy the Vampire Slayer [credited cast only] (Dawn Summers, of course, guessed correctly by wisdomeagle)
2. Angel [credited cast only] (Winifred Burkle, also guessed by Ari)
Bonus! Buffyverse recurring (Drusilla, guessed by Ari)
3. Firefly (River Tam, Ari again)
4. Where on Earth is Carmen Sandiego?
5. Seven Days (Olga, guessed by hermionesviolin
6. Boy Meets World
7. Star Trek: Voyager (Capt. Kathryn Janeway, also guessed by Elizabeth)
8. Veronica Mars (Cindy Mackenzie, guessed by Ari)
9. Commander-in-Chief
10. The West Wing (Donna Moss, guessed by Ari)
11. The 4400 (Tess Doerner, guessed by Elizabeth)
12. Clarissa Explains It All
13. The Secret World of Alex Mack
14. Mr. Roger’s Neighborhood
15. The Adventures of Pete and Pete
16. X-Men (90's cartoon) (Rogue, Elizabeth again)
17. X-Men Evolution (Kitty Pryde, guessed by Elizabeth)
18. The Brady Bunch (Jan Brady, guessed by Ari)
19. The Addams Family (Wednesday Addams)
20. Doctor Who (The Doctor, guessed by Ari)
21. Star Trek: The Original Series (Dr. Leonard "Bones" McCoy, guessed by Ari)
22. Battlestar Galactica (2003)
23. Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers (Rita Repulsa, guessed by Ari)
24. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (Ezri Dax, guessed by Ari)
25. Gilmore Girls

Comments

[wisdomeagle]

BtVS: Dawn
AtS: Fred
Buffyverse-recurring: Kennedy
FF: River
Carmen Sandiego: Carmen?
Boy Meets World: Topanga
VMars: Mac
tWW: Donna
Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood: Lady Aberlin
Brady Bunch: Jan
Dr. Who: Rose
TOS: McCoy
BSG: Starbuck
MMPR: Yellow Ranger? (Yeah, I totally don't know any of their meatspace times and watched like three times before Animaniacs came on. I was in total heart with the Yellow Ranger. And the Blue Ranger.
DS9: Dax


I don't know whether it says something about me or you that I think all your favorite characters save one are girls.

[wisdomeagle]

)

[alixtii.livejournal.com]

<3

[alixtii.livejournal.com]

BtVS: Dawn -- Who else?
AtS: Fred -- Of course.
Buffyverse-recurring: Kennedy -- Guess again. This one shouldn't be too hard.
FF: River -- Naturally.
Carmen Sandiego: Carmen? -- No. (Hint: make sure you notice which incarnation of Carmen Sandiego it is.)
Boy Meets World: Topanga -- No.
VMars: Mac -- Absolutely, of course.
tWW: Donna -- Yes.
Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood: Lady Aberlin -- No.
Brady Bunch: Jan -- Yes.
Dr. Who: Rose -- No.
TOS: McCoy -- Yep. Guess or advanced psychological profiling?
BSG: Starbuck -- No. I have a conflicted feeling towards Starbuck. I feel like I should love her, and I think I probably would if I'd seen more canon, but as it is I just like her. Also, she's not my type of pretty, which makes me feel guilty because I feel like I should be able to see beyond that. (I really wish Paris Geller was hotter, frex, and I always feel like a horrible person for thinking that.) I doubt very much anyone is going to guess this one.
MMPR: Yellow Ranger? -- Wait, the Rangers had personalities? (Other than the Blue Ranger, of course. And the Pink Ranger was The Beautiful Popular Blonde Everyone Loves which, hey, is a trope I can definitely go for now and then even if I do prefer brunettes.) No.
DS9: Dax -- Which one?

I don't know whether it says something about me or you that I think all your favorite characters save one are girls.

First off, does the "save one" even count. I mean, with TOS, my options would pretty much be Majel Barret, Majel Barret, Nichelle Nichols, Grace Lee Whitney, or Majel Barret. (And the fact I didn't need to look any of those names up--not even Rand's--makes me feel like a geek.) Is it any surprise I'd turn to a non-female character?

Anyway it probably it says something about you and something about the persona I project nowadays. I'm most interested in the many cases where what you assume is correct--what does that say about how I experienced my childhood and who my role models were? (My favorite cartoons as a youngun were Rainbow Brite and Princess She-Ra.) Why was I attracted to those characters--especially since I wasn't sexually attracted to them? And how is all this viewed through the lense of my present day self, who doesn't exactly find them sexually attractive--I watched an Alex Mack clip today and was shocked at how young Larissa Oleynik was--but which, I don't know, sexualizes the attraction I felt then, sorta?

(And how does this relate to characters like Susan Pevensie or Kitty Pryde? Hopefully this thought will eventually work its way into meta.)

[wisdomeagle]

First ACK.

Yeah, I totally don't know any of their meatspace times and watched like three times before Animaniacs came on. I was in total heart with the Yellow Ranger. And the Blue Ranger.

Is that even ENGLISH, Ari? I have 0 idea what that was supposed to be. "Real names," I think.

Eve. (I have many further guesses on this one, obviously.)

Anyhow, I'm not familiar with any incarnations of CS other than Where in the World, so I'll refrain from further guessing.

BMW - Cory or I'm out, I think.

Mr. Roger's Neighborhood - X the Owl.

TOS - guess, but based on the fact that nearly everyone I know is a McCoy fan.

Jadzia is my first guess! (But I haven't seen any Ezri episodes yet, so this is pretty much a 50-50 thing. Make of it what you will.)

++

It's interesting, about favorite characters. I feel a definite disconnect between Characters I'm Attracted To and... um, interesting characters? Probably the most obvious example is Firefly, where River is much more *interesting*, but Kaylee is just so delightful that she pings me as "favorite," even though as a character, there's... less substance. Though in other fandoms, I went with "boys who are snarky and interesting" rather than "girls who are made of hot," because I felt like the latter were more shallow choices. So yes, definitions of "favorite," etc.

Oh, hey! Wednesday Addams? And Nine?

[alixtii.livejournal.com]

Is that even ENGLISH, Ari? I have 0 idea what that was supposed to be. "Real names," I think.

Yeah, that confused me too. I assumed you meant the actors' names. Of the Rangers, I only remember Kimberly's and Billy's names of the original cast, and then Tommy and Kat.

Eve. (I have many further guesses on this one, obviously.)

Hint: she spans more than a single season.

Anyhow, I'm not familiar with any incarnations of CS other than Where in the World, so I'll refrain from further guessing.

Oh, I loved Where on Earth so much. So will-to-powery.

BMW - Cory or I'm out, I think.

Nope, sorry.

Jadzia is my first guess!

Nope. Any other guesses? (Hint: It's not Kurzon.)

I feel a definite disconnect between Characters I'm Attracted To and... um, interesting characters?

Sometimes I feel this, but most times I don't see a difference. And as mentioned above, when there is a difference, that often doesn't make me happy. And then I feel shallow because I don't want to be interested in a character I don't find attractive.

Wednesday Addams? And Nine?

Wednesday, yes. As for Nine, I wasn't really thinking of the Doctor as ten different people for this meme (especially as I've never seen Two, Three, Four, Five, or Six) (unlike Dax, who I do think of as different people, in part because the personality changes more drastically with a change in symbiote and partly because both Trill hosts have been female), so I'll count it as a right guess, but I don't think Nine would have been my pick if I had been forced to choose.

[wisdomeagle]

Yeah, that confused me too. I assumed you meant the actors' names.

I have no idea where the word "meatspace" came from. My best guess is that my brain automatically changes the word "real" to "meatspace" whenever I type it.

Lilah?

Ezri?

On Power Rangers, I want to guess the evil woman person (as you've ruled out all the Rangers), and I realize that I have no idea what her name is, and seem to have her conflated in my head with my Sunday school superintendent from the same period. *imdbs*

I seem to mean Rita Repulsa. (God, supervillain names. SO MUCH LOVE.)

[alixtii.livejournal.com]

Ezri and Rita are right! I've always loved villains, even since I was so very young. So will-to-powery.

Lilah is wrong. I am absolutely shocked it is taking you this long.

[wisdomeagle]

Drusilla. I am dumb.

[alixtii.livejournal.com]

Yes, it is Drusilla.

[hermionesviolin.livejournal.com]

I have no idea where the word "meatspace" came from. My best guess is that my brain automatically changes the word "real" to "meatspace" whenever I type it.

Reading this conversation that was totally my thought when I got to the "meatspace" part. (And really, it would be more accurately framed as "human" names and "Ranger" names; we use "meatspace" so as to avoid the implication that cyber interactions are less "real" or valid, and certainly ther Ranger IDs are real.)

[alixtii.livejournal.com]

But certainly the Ranger IDs are human as well, right? (Except when they aren't, in later seasons where they have alien Rangers, but I've never actually seen any of those seasons myself.) Perhaps their "civilian" names?

[hermionesviolin.livejournal.com]

Well when their superpowers are activated they're sort of beyond human... but point taken. "Civilain" name sounds great.

[wisdomeagle]

Yes, which is why what I said makes no sense at all.

I'm not sure what terminology to use. "Christian name" vs "code name" or "Ranger name" seems right except for the unintended religious connotations. Do either of you know what terminology is used in the X-Men fandom? (Especially there, where the code-names/superhero identites become actual identities and are really not disguises at all.) (And all I can think of is Mystique in X3 and "slave name" -- which I only know happened cos of reading Elizabeth's write-up -- but this is not really an issue in MMPR. I think. I am overthinking this. Yay.)

[alixtii.livejournal.com]

Well, in case "where the code-names/superhero identites become actual identities and are really not disguises at all" one can always use "secret identity," it seems to me; Clark Kent is Superman/Kal-el's secret identity. But Kimberly is not the Pink Ranger's secret identity, or so it seems to me, because her primary identity is as Kimberly and her identity as the Pink Ranger is secondary. In X-Men, the identities seem more in balance; Kitty and Emma identify more with their given/birth names than with their code names; Wolverine seems to identify more with his codename; comic!verse Rogue identifies with her codename so strongly practically no one knows her name is Anna; I'm unsure about movie!verse Rogue; Magneto/Erik/Magnus is, I think, pretty evenly balanced; and so on. And of course "Professor X" is more of a nickname than a code name, seeing as he is a teacher named Xavier, which opens up a continuum rather than a sharp dichotomy.

I like "civilian name."

[hermionesviolin.livejournal.com]

Clark Kent is Superman/Kal-el's secret identity

Interesting. I'm more likely to think of Superman as the primary identity and thus of Clark Kent as his secret identity. But I barely engage with the Superman stories at all, and I think your version of it does actually make more sense than mine.

[alixtii.livejournal.com]

I'm more likely to think of Superman as the primary identity and thus of Clark Kent as his secret identity.

*scratches head*

Um, isn't that what I said?

[hermionesviolin.livejournal.com]

Wow, I fail at reading comprehension. Sorry.

[hermionesviolin.livejournal.com]

I tend toward using "birth name" as a secual version of "Christian name." "Given name" is also common, but I find it problematic because you can give yourself a name, and nicknames are given to you by others, &etc.

Alixtii suggested "civilian name," which works for me in the superhero context. (And actually has interesting connotations for, say, transgendered persons -- but that's getting into a whole 'nother topic.)

[hermionesviolin.livejournal.com]

And then I feel shallow because I don't want to be interested in a character I don't find attractive.

So you don't do the thing where a person/character becomes more physically attractive to you due to your attraction to other characteristics of theirs?

[alixtii.livejournal.com]

Real people, absolutely yes. Fictional people, I can't quite think of anyone I've had that sort of experience with, except maybe for Eve. Possibly it's a result of the different way I interact with real and fictional people, or possibly it's a result of fictional people not having as much person underneath to allow one to see their true beauty. The "becoming more physically attractive" thing usually happens over time, and I don't really feel

Whereas I used to think that River was much more physically attractive than Summer, now I think they are about equal, as I "get to know" Summer better through interviews or whatever, or even seeing her play different roles and seeing what is consistent in her acting.

Also, the non-physical characteristics that might attract me to a fictional character aren't the same as the ones that would attract to me a real person, and in some cases would even repel me (frex, snark). So I think it's more or less a completely different dynamic.

[hermionesviolin.livejournal.com]

Also, the non-physical characteristics that might attract me to a fictional character aren't the same as the ones that would attract to me a real person, and in some cases would even repel me (frex, snark). So I think it's more or less a completely different dynamic.

Interesting. I remember talking to my friend Allie about Whedonverse villains and noting that I have real difficulty pulling myself away from an "if they were real" mindset -- and I think I've had this conversation at least once since somewhere in LJ. (Which is not to say that I can't be fascinated by characters I wouldn't want around me in real life.) There probably isn't an exact overlap between "like in fictional characters" and "would like in meatspace people," but it's pretty close for me.

[alixtii.livejournal.com]

Ack.

The "becoming more physically attractive" thing usually happens over time, and I don't really feel

. . . that my understanding of some characters has really evolved or developed all that much.

[wisdomeagle]

Jadzia is my first guess!

Nope. Any other guesses? (Hint: It's not Kurzon.)

I'd like to stress that had I seen any of S7 at the time of this meme, I definitely would have guessed right on my first try.

[alixtii.livejournal.com]

Am I that obvious, or is Ezri just that awesome?

[wisdomeagle]

Bit o' both. Probably goes, "The things that are awesome about Ezri -- adorableness, babble, brains, young, mundane accidentally forced to become super in some way -- are things that are also in one way or another awesome about Kaylee, Fred, or Dawn." Whereas the things that are awesome about Jadzia are less kinks that we have in common.

[hermionesviolin.livejournal.com]

Wait, the Rangers had personalities? (Other than the Blue Ranger, of course. And the Pink Ranger was The Beautiful Popular Blonde Everyone Loves which, hey, is a trope I can definitely go for now and then even if I do prefer brunettes.)

Was the Blue Ranger a later addition? 'Cause I only remember Pink, Yellow, Red, Green/White. (All of whom seemed to me to have adequate personalities.) Okay, looking them up now, (1) the Blue Ranger was among the originals, and I do recognize him, (2) I'm totally conflating Yellow and Black 'cause I'm thinking of the black guy but thinking of him as having a yellow costume; I vaguely remember the Asian woman who played the Yellow Ranger. [NB: This is all first incarnation Rangers, of course; I was vaguely aware of Tommy's Green-White Ranger arc but had mostly stopped watching the show by then.]

[alixtii.livejournal.com]

Two more thoughts:

Nothing I say above is to be taken in any way as a disparagement of the awesomeness of Lwaxanna Troi.

Carmen of course is a manifestation of an adolescent fantasy, and the whole plot and thus the appeal of Where on Earth of course thus centers on Carmen. Carmen Sandiego is a character type I love very, very much. It's just that that show had one particular character that fascinated me, in large part because of their, erm, unique relationship with Carmen.