What People Have Been Saying about Online Norms

[alixtii]

Because I am too tired to write my own meta.

"I know these traditions and practices aren't set in stone, that they slide and they evolve--look at RPS, for instance. And some are controversial, like public discussion/crit--some have seen it going on since forever and some have never seen it before; some think it's healthy and some think it's hurtful. I look at this thing, though, the taking of and playing with another fan's creation without contact or permission, and I think I see a new thing, I think I see something that isn't thought of as done and that hasn't been through the gazillion rounds of discussion that RPS and critical discussion have, and I wonder. The 'We Don't Do That!' folks may be right--maybe we don't. The 'We Can If We Want To!' folks may also be right; this may be a thing wot's time has come." -- carolyn_claire, here

"I dunno--this manners thing, I think it's become passe, in fandom, and it's all about the creative urge, now. No, really. I always thought that RPF was bad manners, but what do I know? It's all the rage, these days. Remixing someone else's story without asking first--I wouldn't have done it, thinking that it's not done, but maybe people do, and it is, and I've just missed the trolly." -- carolyn_claire, ibid.

"I realized that since lj and the fandom explosion, I think there might have always been two parallel fandoms happening at once—there are the people who expect fandom to be a community and enjoy the community aspect of it and participate according to our self-governing rules, and there are the people who never have felt or believed in this community-mindedness and who participate with either an anarchist sort of mentality of attacking the machine or who use rampant misbehavior in fandom as release valve for the fact that social strictures in their off-line life leave them feeling alienated or commodified or ineffectual (this is totally discounting the people who are just ignorant morons)." -- ethrosdemon, here


"I agree that not all mentoring is good. In fact, I don't think we'd be having underage, incest, or RPS as normal parts of fandom now if the old guard had stood firm. Things evolve.

But even a feral fan once part of a community constructs rules...at which point ferality changes to domesticity??? :-)" -- cathexys, ibid.

"Just in the last three months or so [this post is itself a couple months old--ed.], I've noticed that it's become much more common to follow community posts with a sentence something along the lines of, 'If this isn't appropriate, please feel free to delete.' [. . .] I think it's clear that there's a nod to certain power structures taking place here. Perhaps the anarchist dream of the internet is over and a 'civilized' mindset is becoming ingrained in the web's denizens. What are the implications of this?" -- chronofile, here

"The relevant issue as it applies to the internet is not the right to be something, but the right to publish something. Hegemonic institutions retain their power largely by controlling the ability of individuals to speak out; yet the revolution of the internet is its empowering everyone to publish what they will. My concern is that people are granting too much power to those who control the means of publication on the internet." -- chronofile, ibid.

"I was trying more to set up a dichotomy between the 'anarchist dream' -- a term I admit to using somewhat off-handedly, but is grounded in the cyberpunk movement -- and the sort of embedded power that obliges people to tip their hats to the moderators with every post. It's that obligation that I find worthy of note." -- chronofile, ibid.

"[O]ne could very easily argue that the people aren't really in control of the social conventions on LJ or, if one argues that they are (the old 'vote with your feet' argument that they can always create their own comm), if the way in which they are is similar to the way in which the U.S. government functions, than this type of 'control by the people' can't be what would be desired by the anarchist, because any usage of 'anarchist' that didn't include 'opposition of the government' would, I'd argue, be idiosyncratic." -- me, ibid.

Comments

[executrix.livejournal.com]

Ironically enough, I clicked on the link but couldn't post this because I'm not a Friend and anonymous posting is disabled.

Another factor is that LJ doesn't allow you to, so to speak, "try before you buy." There are a lot of comms and LJs that you have to join/friend before you can see if the content appeals to you--and, crucially, what is or isn't an acceptable post.

Someone who's new to a fandom often finds out that there are multiple and somewhat overlapping comms, and it takes some time to discover that a particular post is OK Here but not There, and to find out how much overlap there is among the membership and viewership of Here, There, The Other Place, and That Place Too (and thus whether you're going to be annoying everyone by cross-posting).

As for norms: To Live Outside The Law, You Must Be Honest.

[alixtii.livejournal.com]

Yes--the standards are never clear, because we aren't really one single community, so everything is constantly in flux.

To Live Outside The Law, You Must Be Honest.

I'm not quite sure what this means; my first reaction is to ask "Why must you be honest?" (And to wonder what sort of "must" we are talking about--is this necesity logical, physical, ethical, or what?)

[executrix.livejournal.com]

When there are no reliable outside means of enforcement, we're thrown back on the consequences of our own actions. I don't like one of the exercises we sometimes do in Qi Gong class--it involves bending over, crunching your toes into the ground, pushing your fists together and scrunching up your face. The point is to release the tension a little later, but I hate being Scrunched Up Person.

Or, as one explanation of Karma puts it, theft is always punished because if you steal you become a thief.

[paynbow.livejournal.com]

I maintain that everyone is free to write and post what they like. The trick comes in getting your stuff read, and there you have to be a keen politician. You have to become a member of a board/community, a member who is well-liked and well-thought of. You have to post frequently, and you have to post what the people want. Fic authors who write gen see far fewer comments than those who post slash/het shipper fics, for example. Once people on the board read your stuff, once you're a prominent enough member, the praise will roll in. I have seen some terrible stories get glowing praise due to who penned them. While people like to say the internet is a place where anarchy reigns, I see a place where the same instinct to lobby and climb the social ladder takes place. The only difference is that people are faceless, although in many cases online handles are so well known that this is not the case.

To me the interenet is like a club at University or at your community center. You find the one you want to join, based on your interests, and despite the fact that everyone just wants to be there to share their love of, say, chess, the inevitable drama that people interacting with people brings will take over.

There are no elected leaders online, nor any official governments, however people instinctively fall into the heirarchy.

If this isn't okay, pls remove...lol < _ >

[alixtii.livejournal.com]

Thoughts are always welcome!

I think fandom is even less organized than a chess club--it's more like a room in a University building that just happens to have chess boards. And when someone comes in and begins using the chess pieces to act out the plot of King Lear, some of the other members of the room find the practice disconcerting....